Dabbing

Discussions Rules
#1

In the ruleset we can read :

6.2.1 Dabbing
6.2.1.1 A player is considered to dab, or be dabbed, when their foot rests on anything
other than their own bike or the vertical face of the boards.
6.2.1.1.1 A player’s foot cannot touch the ground, goals or other player’s bodies or
equipment.
6.2.1.2 A player that leans with any portion of their body against the goal for stability is
considered a dabbed player.
6.2.1.2.1 The Goal Judge may signal a dab according to 3.5.2.3.
6.2.1.2.2 The Main Referee or the Goal Judge announces to the player of the dab.
6.2.1.3 A player’s hand may not grab onto anything other than their own bike, mallet, or
ball as outlined in 4.7.
6.2.1.4 Holding, grabbing or otherwise resting on the goal or the top of the boards is
considered a dab.

Nothing is said about resting (not grabbing, just resting with like a straight hand) with your elbow or hand on the vertical face of the boards, yet every player who rest on boards are getting called by the ref, how so ? I get it when they grab it, but it would be difficult to make the difference between grabbing and resting when everything goes fast, thus I would add to the rule that you can’t rest with your hand (and elbow) on the board, not only grabbing.

Which brings me to : can anyone explain why you couldn’t rest on the board but legit put your hand on the floor to do what we call a Raclette (applying horizontally the mallet on the floor as a goal to block the ball). I never understood why we are getting harder on these rules but allow the raclette. Doesn’t make any sense to me, I would like to understand that.

Thanks

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#2

Maybe I am misunderstanding you but as per 6.2.1.1 players are getting called for placing any part of their body on HORIZONTAL part of the boards. If you are saying that payers are getting called for leaning against the boards, it´s not overlapping with my experience.

The new NAH ruleset explicitly legalizes the raclette, the euro ruleset does not. It´s just “common understanding” that raclette or picking up your dropped mallet is not considered a dab, even though technically it would be.

#3

Not sure I understand the first part but players who rest with hand, elbow, foot on the vertical surface or the boards are not called by the ref.
6.2.1.4 shows it is forbidden to do so on the top of the board.
I agree that at high speed it’s sometimes hard to know if the contact is horizontal or vertical…

For the Raclette, happy that you ask !!!
Raclette is forbidden by the current EHBA ruleset if goalie’s hand touches the court.
Then, no ref will ever call a Raclette…

#4

Yes, I made a mistake, last point explains that you can’t rest on horizontal surface. Then again, I think raclette should be illegal since the floor is horizontal and as we said, you can’t really see if hands touches the floor or not. I’m not especially against raclette but it doesn’t make sense with the rest of the rules. Either we authorize it and you can rest on horizontal surface either none of the above is authorized.

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#5

I think this „raclette is forbidden by rules as written“-discussion is a bit stupid :slight_smile: the wording is „resting“ and „leaning“, not „gently touching“

Same for leaning on goals, its kinda common sense that if you wheelslap the goal while getting into position its allowed, but if you lean on it for stability its a dab - same for the raclette. If some (incredibly flexy) player were to tripod with their hand on the ground, thats a dab, it you touch the ground while racletting but not gaining a stability advantage you should be fine by rules as written imo.

Polove :heart:

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#6

Reverse uno card on you.

I don’t think that it’s stupid to ask about this. I feel that it’s stupid to say you’re not allowed to put your foot on the ground but it’s ok to put your hand. Even if really fast.

I find raclette beautiful but kind of against all the other rules. And if I were to shot as hard as I can to make my ball enter and take the risk to hit the goalie, i’d be seen as an idiot. I feel like many new rules are about security of the players yet we allow goalies to put their heads right in front of the mallet. Doesn’t make any sense.

Please don’t call my question stupid and bring some sense to this discussion. I’ve listed cons. List pros so we can debate.

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#7

Did not mean to offend you - this is not the first time I hear people talk about this and I cant help but roll my eyes everytime it happens. But yeah, I should not have called the discussion stupid, you are right! Sorry!

My points are made above, the rules as written do not read to me as if the raclette is forbidden.

And by now I am a bit confused as to what you are trying to discuss here… the safety aspect of the raclette is not really part of the dabbing question you asked initially.
There are not really any rules against putting yourself in danger, only about actions which could harm others. And clearly a hard shot on goal is and should always be allowed. If you chose to put your face in its path, better wear a facecage :raised_hands::raised_hands:

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#8

No worries.

As to what I am talking about, it’s evolving. I’m trying to understand the logic of the rules to know if theyr are good or not. Applying rules without thinking about them is just like police hitting on strikers because it was “the orders” know what I mean ?

I understand the "don’t put you foot/hand on horizontal surfaces, that’s what I was talking first. But using this rule, I don’t feel like raclette should be allowed. For the simple logic that floor is an horizontal surface and hand shouldnt be resting/grabbing a thing else that the mallet or bike.

Anyway, I know this a discussion that exists from a long time (that would explain to me why we have to discuss and it and that there is a problem with this rule) and sadly I think I’ll have to just accept that it doesn’t make any sense but since some players like the raclette it will keep on existing. Then again, I like the raclette, but if you don’t allow some stuff you can’t allow them just for one specific thing.

#9

Good post by @Cleftintwain on this:

#10

I agree with him, yet this raclette move is broken. Never understood why we allow raclette when we don’t allow to shoot the ball in your wheel to redirect it in the goal (and many other moves). There are so many things that are now forbidden for whatever reason but this one persists and I don’t get it.

#11

i always saw this like , if we are allowed to tripod with a mallet, doing the raclette is like a form of tripoding.

the issue is if you manage to use your fist as a bounce off the floor but if you hold the mallet grip by the fingertips, very low, then you cant really call it a dab.

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#12

One point for Max with the raclette. I’m not against raclette but horizontal is horizontal. If i “gently” touch the ground with my foot i’m out and that’s all. There should be something written about it to allow it and that’s all.

0 point for all the “there is the spirit” and “there is the wording”.
That is wrong (to me at least). Of course there is the spirit. But then, the wording is responsible for translating 100% of the spirit. Not 98%, not 99%. If there is room for interpretation : improve the wording !

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#13

6.2.1.2 A player that leans with any portion of their body against the goal for stability is considered a dabbed player.

when someone get check into a board he is usually not called dabbed ? although he should ?

this point is why its important to know whats the board height , because most of them finish way below my shoulder , so if i m checked in the board i will most likely dab with my hand or shoulder resting on top of the boards.

if they are high enough i can “wall ride” with my shoulder or hand/elbow

#14

6.2.1.2 is about the goal, not the board.
It’s written nowhere that you can’t lean on a vertical board.

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#15

can you lean with any portion of the body on the horizontal , top of the boards ?

if i crash into the boards and lend on it under my armpit , im technically not dabbed but am i ?

if i punch the top of the board im technically not grabbing or resting my hand on them, but i get called sometimes

i get a lot of different calls for a lot of different interactions with the boards.

these cause me more issues than the raclette move

#16

The spirit is just meant to point at the intention of the rule; what it aims at. I don’t think the current ruleset was written with the intention of removing the raclette but if you read it carefully it appears to be forbidden. In this case, it is perhaps an easy fix to allow momentary blocks without going so far as to permit tripoding on one’s fist. I think forbidding the latter is much more important than explicitly permitting the former.

However, there is just no way to remove all ambiguity… Look at how reasonable people disagree about interference when recent examples have been discussed… Better wording will not decide these debates, and whether the author’s intentions carry any weight remains to be seen. :kissing_heart:

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#17

It’s crazy how, every time, I think I can speak and read decent english, and then you write something …

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