Not moving

Discussions Rules
#1

Ayo, quick question because of something that happened in Milano :

I was going for the ball, opponent (who is on my left) is also going for the ball, the ball is sliding on our left against the borders. We arrive at the same moment against the border so the opponent gets the ball on their left and I’m blocking them from moving by blocking them against the border (they can’t go forward). So far, all is fine but the opponent does a pass to their teammate behind them so now they don’t have a the ball anymore, none of us moved since we got here and they want to get out of this position. Only issue is that, since I didn’t move either they can’t get out except maybe by bouncing on their bike backward.

Am I at fault here ?

  • If yes, why (since I didn’t move, I “was there” before they wanted to go, I feel like it’s ok even if not really nice) ?
  • And if not, can I stay as long as I want ?

Thanks

#2

6.1.3.1.4 A player who is not in possession is entitled to attempt a screen on the Ball Carrier.
6.1.3.1.4.1 If a player in possession concedes or losses possession, that player can no longer be screened.

I guess that is the rule that applies here. Neither of you was in possession anymore so you can not block each other, it’s your responsibility to move away and let him move. So yes, I think it’s your fault, but I’m curious to read what the more experienced refs have to say…

2 Likes
#3

Ok yes, looks like I’m at fault. Nevertheless, I can’t help but trying to define the second line : 6.1.3.1.4.1

If I put myself and stay at a specific place and the ball carrier (in my team) uses me as a screen when a defender is trying to get the ball from them, it’s ok. We saw that and that’s legal, this move is even often use in basket ball.

Taking that into account, I understand it like that : I can’t screen someone who have lost/passed the ball but if I was doing a screen before that, what happens ? I’m not “doing” screen, i’m “keeping” the screen. Is that different?

#4

The convention is to not deliberately hold a player static on the boards if they no longer have the ball.

By all means, take your time to exit. But, holding the position without moving for any longer than a few moments is generally believed to be against the spirit of the interference rule.

Sometimes things are so obvious it hardly requires writing them down. Perhaps this is one of those things.

2 Likes
#5

Agreed with spirit of the game. I think we should write down though. Cause from what I read, nothing really prevent player from doing what I described. (Then again, I could have missed it)

#6

Read the whole section carefully!

Everything you are wondering about is in 6.1.3.1.2 and its subrules.

You have the right to the space you occupy always but that rather protects you from others crashing into you at will. In the situarion you describe, if the ball moves away then you should go away and let the other player do the same. They have to be allowed to move naturally and freely in their offensive/defensive position too. You don’t have to do it immediately but you also should not exploit it to gain a clear situational advantage. Yes you can do it “slowly” because clearly the situation benefits you, but if you don’t make any move at all for 5s the chance is high it will be called as an interference, because it is. The circumstances matter, it is not fully black and white.

1 Like
#7

But it says :

6.1.3.1.2.1 A penalty is not issued if a player is occupying their own space when
stationary, or is moving at a predictable and constant speed when
taking their own offensive or defensive position on the court.
6.1.3.1.2.2 A stationary and/or momentary ‘screen’ does not result in a
penalty if the action incidentally meets the position of the player.
6.1.3.1.2.3 Natural impedance of an opponent based on position and velocity
does not result in a penalty.

I don’t see anything about the ball moving. There are 3 periods :
1- they have the ball, I screen
2- they pass the ball, I don’t move
3- they want to move, since I didn’t move, I’m following 6.1.3.1.2.1 and 6.1.3.1.2.2 and if they want to pass, they will “force it”.

#8

There is this line though

6.1.3.1.4.1 If a player in possession concedes or losses possession, that player
can no longer be screened.

but still, using the previous ones, since I didn’t move I’m not “creating” a screen, it existed before.
There is something there that should be written differently I think

#9

6.1.3.1.2.3 Natural impedance of an opponent based on position and velocity
does not result in a penalty.

When the ball moves away from both of you the natural thing for you is not to camp there forever, especially if it clearly hinders the free and open movement of another player far away from the ball. Again the whole situation matters, it can not be completely generalized. I don’t know where the ball went, who gained possession, what was the big picture.

But if I see you staying there for a long time and the consequence is that the other player cannot take part in a critical situation then I will call interference. If I see you move away within a reasonable time and speed, even if it delays the other player I would give you the benefit of the doubt.

2 Likes
#10

I’m ok with not being an ass and having some fair play and I’m not looking for a way to do it but I think rules are not really precise on this matter. You are talking about “natural thing” and “reasonable time and speed”. Those are your point of view not something precise and that’s the issue for me. To you “normal” is going to the ball when for me it can be normal to stay here to prevent the opponent from taking the ball. Reasonable speed for me can be too fast/slow for others…

1 Like
#11

You cannot press a complex situation into a few words, where 6 players and the ball have to be considered in terms of timing, position, speed, direction, and their evolution before, during and after the situation. The big picture matters.

Boundary conditions are 1) you cannot disappear within an instant from where you stand (right to occupy space) 2) you cannot trap another player away from the ball with your position indefinitely (free and open movement).

I refer here to the spirit of the game. This situation is clearly not a black and white situation.

2 Likes
#12

Yeah I guess you’re right, thanks

1 Like
#13

Thanks for the discussion!

3 Likes