Public discussion about Swiss Comittee and Rep list (2021 and beyond?)

Committees
#56

Cool, honestly i’m really open to this discussion (mandatory/not) because i have no clue what is “the best” solution to be more inclusive/promotional in this matter without risking too much division.
(I may phrase it poorly sometimes).

I like the idea of following the majors tournament trends but do we have any clue about the hypothetical format of the next euro/world champ ?
Because in absence of clear orientation of EHBA/NA/OTHER(?) this would be up to national committee to take some decision in this regard.

I like the soft way of doing it (saving slots for example).
I also like the test way (testing format on 1 or 2 seasons).

My personal, and very practical opinion, is that without clear orientation i’d always try to take the “safe” way. I’m not even talking about other aspect of this question (morality, equity, etc) but just from a selfish and practical point of view i think having a mixed 4 players team starting from now is a good idea.

#57

Fair enough. But I’m not sure that could be described as the ‘safe’ option for established or prospective teams that are not mixed.

Imagine Swiss is mixed.man. And then major tournaments are not. Several issues here. one teams will have been forced to play a way that is not required at higher levels of competition. Two, that team might thereafter decide to change their lineup, which leads to issues of a team being ill prepared and individuals being left out.

The ‘safest’ option would be to choose an open format that allows for the greatest series of eventualities.

Within that scope everyone is free to be ‘the active part of the change you want to see in the world’. Basically allowing everyone to assert their own values through their own team choices - and by encouraging others from your club to participate and do likewise.

Though as I’ve mentioned in previous posts. I think there are additional measures we could add to make targets of inclusivity more proactive

E.g. registration and qualification spots reserved for mixed teams. Or splitting the final day into challenger and slayer brackets so that competition can be more evenly matched and we can have two tiers of Swiss champions at the end of it.

#58

Regarding the game format, I also think this is the best solution as long as there is no new trend in international discussions. But it’s clear, we should decide as a national commitee, and hence vote on it.

The question of mixed teams seems to be more complicated, I can see the positive as well as the negative aspects you guys mention. How should we proceed? List up the PROs and CONs here and discuss them individually in our clubs?

#59

Thanks, so, first thing first :

voting system variant :

  1. Per club voice : each club rep gather all the voices of the club, these voices result in a club vote.
    ex: 4 players says YES , 6 players says NO : club vote is NO

  2. Individual voice : each club rep gather all the voices of the club, these voices are then forwarded to a main count from all the club.
    ex : 4 players say YES, 6 players says NO : club rep transmit these 4 x YES and 6x NO to the main voting thread (should be a thread here in poloverse)

  3. Double majority vote : each club rep gather all the individual votes (4x YES and 6x NO in our exemple). These voices are then reported on the main voting thread, In addition to the individual voices the club vote is also reported on this thread.

EDIT: i think double majority is way too complicated for our case (swiss bp).
I don’t even know were to start because depending on how do you ask the question may influence the vote.
Like for example : “Should the format stick to 3v3 or go to 4v4 ?”

3v3 got 10 individual votes
4v4 got individual 7 votes

3v3 got 3 club votes
4v4 got 4 club votes

Individual wants 3v3
Clubs wants 4v4

Which format is chosen, we stick to 3v3 ?
It’s a mess, in my brain.

I think we should vote either on solution 1 or solution 2.

3 Likes
#60

everyone fine, let’s vote on this? (and hope club and individual count gives the same result?)

#61

My text proposal to share to the club rep. I’ll do an email too.

ENGLISH

The committee is going to hold votes on several items in the coming weeks. The first vote is about the method of collecting these votes. As a reminder, the principle is that the representative of each club submits the question to the members of the club and then reports the votes here. For your information, here is the list of representatives:

  • Bex: Joel
  • Zurich: Miguel
  • Basel: Lukas
  • St Gallen: Bassil
  • Bern: Emmet
  • Lausanne: Mario
  • Genf: Quentin

First item for voting:

How should the votes be counted? Note: for this vote, I propose that all results be taken into account individually.

1. Individual Vote Counting
For exemple the representative from Bex collects the votes (for example, 4 YES and 5 NO) Each representative/club submits their result:

  • Bex: YES 4 / NO 5
  • Zurich: YES 2 / NO 7
  • Basel: YES 1 / NO 2
  • St Gallen: YES 1 / NO 2
  • Bern: YES 2 / NO 3
  • Lausanne: YES 5/ NO 2
  • Genf: YES 1 / NO 6

Total YES: 16 Total NO: 27

Note:

  • In case of a tie, it could be possible to decide with the vote of the clubs.

2. Club Voting
For exemple the representative from Bex collects the votes (for example, 4 YES and 5 NO) The club’s vote on the question is NO. Each representative/club submits their result:

  • Bex: NO
  • Zurich: YES
  • Basel: NO
  • St Gallen: NO
  • Bern: YES
  • Lausanne: NO
  • Genf: YES

NO: 4 YES: 3

Note:

  • In case of a tie, it could be possible to count the individual votes.
  • This is the currently in place system.

FRENCHAIS

Le comité va être amené à faire voter quelques objets ces prochaines semaines.
Le premier vote concerne la manière de récolter ces votes.
Pour rappel le principe est que les représentant de chaque club soumette la question aux membres du club et fasse remonter les votes ici.
Pour info voici la liste des représentants :

Bex: Joel
Zurich: Miguel
Basel: Lukas
St Gallen: Bassil
Bern: Emmet
Lausanne: Mario
Genf: Quentin

Premier objet de vote :

Comment les voix doivent être comptabilisées ?
Note : pour ce vote je propose que tous les résultats soient pris en compte individuellement.

1. Vote par voix individuelles
Le représentant de Bex récolte les votes (par exemple 4 OUI et 5 NON)
Chaque représentant / club transmettent leur résultat :

Bex: OUI 4 / NON 5
Zurich: OUI 2 / NON 7
Basel: OUI 1 / NON 2
St Gallen: OUI 1 / NON 2
Bern: OUI 2 / NON 3
Lausanne: OUI 5/ NON 2
Genf: OUI 1 / NON 6

Total OUI: 16
Total NON : 27

Note :

  • En cas d’égalité il serait possible de trancher avec le vote des clubs.

2: Vote par club.
Le représentant de Bex récolte les votes (par exemple 4 OUI et 5 NON)
Le vote du club à la question est NON.
Chaque représentant / club transmettent leur résultat :

Bex: NON
Zurich: OUI
Basel: NON
St Gallen: NON
Bern: OUI
Lausanne: NON
Genf: OUI

NON : 4
OUI : 3

Note :

  • En cas d’égalité il serait possible de compter les voix individuelles
  • C’est le système actuellement en place.
2 Likes
Swiss committee 2025 and subjects to talk about
#62

In my opinion the same is true, and a bit worst, if the opposite happen :

imagine training as a 4v4 non mixed and then majors tournaments are mixed mandatory, not only your team is ill prepared but totally non-compatible with tournaments. You will be forced to drop/swap one player.
In the opposite, having a mixed team doesn’t force you to do anything* in case of either decision about major tournament : you could play them as you trained.

It’s my vision of “safe”, having the smaller common denominator to play all tournaments.
It’s not the vision i see myselft forcing people to agree with but in a pure “mathematical” point of view i think it’s the safest.

I agree that an open format that aim for inclusiveness could work well for the Swiss bp scene, because teams will have choice. They will have the choice to take the risk of having to change their lineup (in either direction, going mixed or reverting to non mixed if the feel the need of it) and also may benefit of saved slots for mixed team as you proposed.

The be really transparent : i think that i kind of see what you’re aiming at Emmet (please note that i’m not sure) but i’m not sure the time and the size of the bike polo scene is on the side of having different levels, gender, formats, etc tournaments or league.
Pardon my english if it’s not clear.

  • except having a mixed team lol
#63

Thanks Quentin. For me this is a good start.
As soon as is approved I will ask the club.
My only question is how are we going to count those votes? Following our current system by clubs (option 1) ?

#64

I’ve sent the email. Let’s vote.

Note : as Mario proposed let’s take in consideration both individual votes and club votes.

Hopefully the results will be the same ( majority of individuals vote X and clubs vote X).

I propose a duration of one week for the vote. ?

Also : so far I’ve no answer from @kluk (lukas) from bale, I’ve texted Dani about it.
Edit : Lukas is still the man

1 Like
#65

Hello,
In Bex we have the assembly on March 18.
can we extend the voting date until then?

Joe

1 Like
#66

fine for me !

#67

Lausanne
4x Club vote (option 2)
1x Individuel (option 1)
1x vote blanc

Basel
"on vote pour la proposition 2 (par club) "
10 x votes pour Club
0 x vote individuel

St. Gallen
8 votes for individual
2 votes for club voting

Zurich
8 Club
2 Individual
*Other members didn’t vote

Bern
5 Individual
1 Club

GVP
8 Individual
1 Club

Bex
Club vote : 12
Induvidual vote: 4

#68

I should precise that when i was talking about 4v4 it was the 3+1 format we played last year, meaning : 3 players on the court and 1 player on the bench.
Sorry if it was not clear.

#69

Zurich:
8 Club
2 Individual
*Other members didn’t vote

1 Like
#70

Bern:

5 Individual
1 Club

1 Like
#71

Bex:

Club vote : 12
Induvidual vote: 4

Cheers

1 Like
#72

all clubs have voted right ?

Results, someone double check please :

image

Majority of clubs and individual voices for the option n°2 : Club Voting

3 Likes
#73

OK for Bex

1 Like
#74

Should we now discuss/vote what’s next ?

Swiss champ format (3v3, quad ?)
Is Lausanne confirming his “bid” for the 1-2.06 ?

#75

Sadly the city informed us last week that the court won’t be available (even though we asked before and they said it should be ok :rage:)
As we already published the date, we’ll try to stick to it and play on another court. We’ve already contacted several courts in the region, we’ll keep you informed.
But yes we confirm our bid to co-organize the swiss champs together with Bex.

2 Likes