Public discussion about Swiss Comittee and Rep list (2021 and beyond?)

Committees
#102

This is a fair point, but I would like to challenge your thought process here.

Recall what FLINTA means: Fem/female, lesbian, intersex, non-binary, trans, agender/androgynous.

While I dont think I have met folks from every category of FLINTA in Switzerland (I hate putting it that way TBH), an all FLINTA team may still be gender diverse. You could have an all FLINTA team that appears assigned female at birth (AFAB), but they could still have a gender diverse team. The same argument could be made for a nonbinary person who was assigned male at birth (AMAB) or a trans man, the team might look like a non-gender diverse team.

I think we have to have some level of trust that those teams are being honest in their registration as a gender diverse team.

2 Likes
#103

After thinking about this a little more, gender diverse here does have a direct conflict with the lesbian part of FLINTA.

We could alternatively say Mixed Manditory (e.g., the inclusion of FLINTA players on a team)

#104

Can somebody just recapitulate the main argument why mixed teams should be mandatory. So that I (I didn’t scrolled down the 10meters of conversation) can give the condensed information to my club members.

#105

For:

  • Historically there has been poor representation of flinta players in regional, continental and world championships.

  • A significant number of flinta players have expressed not feeling welcome or safe in the more competitive tournaments.

Against:

  • Mandatory solutions are undesirable. In this case it is argued tha making polo mandatory mixed would be a quick fix solution that only addresses the issue of representation and consequently is a measure that can foster tokenism ahead of development.

  • There are in existence non mixed teams that would be forced to disband as a result of this change.

There are of course many more arguments both for and against the mixed mandatory decision. And as you might tell from the other posts, there are also other considerations on how to find a balance between inclusion and competition.

2 Likes
#106

Hi everybody after discussion in our club, hearing around some opinions from elsewhere about the point 3) the mixed mandatory question, we think to vote on the topic a) NOW and b)ONLINE is an inadequate procedure to take a serious decision. Why?
Because for a It’s too precipitately. the vote will be closed just some 6 weeks before the event we’re voting about. That’s too short to for team building measures which should take place if option 3a would be chosen. If we want a serious competition, this is just not serious. And it’s completely unclear if we vote for just this edition 2024 or for a change forever. Or did we miss something?

Because for b As we all now internet is cool, but sometimes things deserve to be discussed face to face and in realtime. For example this question. In our opinion Bike-Polo is a cool game because there is a cool community behind it. And if we vote on the topic of inclusion why do we not take some time (in Lausanne I hope) to have a real discussion where everybody from the community is included and can discuss this subject. In German you would say there is a lot of Diskussionsbedarf (The necessity to discuss) …If this is possible. It seems that cancel culture already arrived in Bike Polo. People who are against mixed mandatory don’t even dare to say it loudly. Personally I think, it’s not that bad and that there are a few people caring a lot about the topic an identifying themselves with it and these same people are also guiding the online discussion.

For the above mentioned reasons a/b (too precipitated, umprecise voting subject, lack of open and public analogue discussion) our club is suggesting to suspend and postpone the vote of the point 3.
We also suggest that we include a rule in the committee rule set that major changes in tournament modalities (as for the present example) should in the future not be voted later than 4 month before the event in question.
Thanks for your attention. Thanks to Quentin (the moderator of the discussion and informal president of the board to treat and comment this)
By the way, in Basel we have 4/10 Flinta players

2 Likes
#107

Thing is, some clubs react to the vote objects proposal ( up there : Public discussion about Swiss Comittee and Rep list (2021 and beyond?) - #81 by coolquentin).
The object was modified and then the vote process started. Then we talked about favoring mixed team.
Now we hear Basel opinion but haven’t heard about StGallen or Bex.
I guess it was started too soon and foremost in the middle of Easter Holidays.

Can someone form Bex @Joe and StGallen @Basil-St.Gallen step up here ?

I see two options here :

1.Vote no or blank if you’re against a proposal.
2. Restart the votes with new or clarified objects.

If #2 : what should be the new object, new proposal in BOLD :

  1. Swiss champs 2024 organized by Lausanne + bex the 1.06 and 2.06 2024.
    a. Yes
    b. No (meaning postponing it also club who vote No should propose an alternate date and location)
    c. Blank (no opinion)

  2. Swiss champs 2024 format
    a. 3v3
    b. 4v4 (3+1 we played last year)
    c. Blank (no opinion)

  3. Should Swiss champs 2024 be mixed mandatory (meaning gender diverse teams)
    a. Yes it should be mandatory
    b. No is shouldn’t be mandatory
    c. Blank (no opinion)

  4. Swiss champs 2024 count as qualification for euro 2024 (if they exist one day, not euros 2025)
    a. Yes
    b. No
    c. Blank (no opinion)

  5. If the Swiss champs aren’t mixed mandatory a proportion of the qualification spots will be reserved for gender diverse teams. The exact distribution of spots will be decided once EHBA announces the number of spots Switzerland will receive.
    a. Yes
    b. No
    c. Blank (no opinion)

VOTE OBJECTS PROPOSAL
  • I’m OK with this proposal (and represent my club opinion)
  • I’m NOT OK with this proposal (and represent my club opinion)

0 voters

#108

salut Lukas,
the fact that you ignore that there s flinta discrimination problem and that you jump into protesting against the vote at the last minute doesn t mean that the problem is inexistant ( just that until now it s out of your preoccupations), neither that the discussion appeared at the last minute.
since mario proposed to organise swiss champs, the mandatory mixed was a point to think about. i guess you skipped it cause you maybe thought that nothing will be concretely done to improve the flinta recruitement for competitive turneys?
also i d like you to expand on what you call “cancel culture” in this precise context, its not clear at all for me.

coming to the main point:
nobody is imposing anything, it s a vote. if you are clearly against mandatory mixed for 2024 (we only talk and vote about this year) , as your text suggests it, just vote “no” that s all. but please don t desguise it in " we need to discuss" in order to annulate the vote, it looks a bit cheap. just do how you feel it and hope other clubs will vote to mainain the status quo of the bro culture too.

i know you are not the only one not getting the point, actually mostly this makes me vote yes.

5 Likes
#109

Hi Lukas,
Thanks for your input. I agree that it’s a difficult question and that it needs more space for discussion.
Too bad we have little time for it before the swiss champs now…
In Bern and Lausanne too the discussion about the question is quite emotional, as it seems to be difficult to find the right solution - lost between wanting more inclusion but noticing that there are barely enough Flintas in CH to make entirely mixed swiss champs. Many people talk about it individually but there’s definitely a lack of a “global discussion”.
As the question is difficult but we need to decide, I suggest to do the voting as planned, but that the result ist for this year only → The rephrasing that Quentin proposed.

I really like your idea to create a space during swiss champs to discuss this question. We’ll definitely do this!

2 Likes
#110

So i’ll add this question to our poll, just in case.

1 Like
#111

Lausanne voting result:

  1. swiss champs organised by Bex/Lausanne:
    5x yes (a)
    0x no (b)
    2x blank (c)

  2. format:
    0x 3v3 (a)
    4x 4v4 (b)
    3x blank (c)

  3. gender diverse teams ar swiss champs:
    4x yes (a)
    2x no (b)
    1x blank (c)

  4. swiss champs = euro qualifs
    5x yes (a)
    0x no (b)
    2x blank (c)

  5. slots for gender diverse teams reserved
    7x yes (a)
    0x no (b)
    0x blank (c)

Little statement to question 3 as we discussed about it intern:
“Dear Swiss Polo Scene,

As you’re well aware, the theme “mandatory-mixed” created a lot of noise, discussion and ideas. In our club too. And that’s why we would like to share our thoughts with you. In response to question 3, we voted YES.

Why?

Undoubtedly, there exist arguments both in favor of and against mandatory mixed teams. However, one point stands out clearly for us. While it may be acceptable for this year’s Swiss Championships not to enforce mandatory mixed teams, we strongly advocate for its implementation next year ( and we’ll vote yes again 🫰🏼). Admittedly, mandatory mixed teams alone won’t resolve all discrimination issues, but we firmly believe that by instituting this requirement, clubs will be prompted to address the issue more earnestly (and not only about flinta).

Is this purely theoretical? Are you unsure how to enhance your inclusivity?

We, too, acknowledge the absence of a one-size-fits-all solution. Nonetheless, we propose the formation of a collaborative workgroup aimed at providing tools and fostering discussions during the Swiss Championships. It would be great if representatives from each club, ideally 1-2 individuals or more, participate in this initiative.

Warm mallets,

PLS”

2 Likes
#112

our Basel Vote:

  1. Swiss champs 2024 organized by Lausanne + bex the 1.06 and 2.06 2024.
    a. Yes

  2. Swiss champs 2024 format
    b. 4v4 (3+1 we played last year)

  3. Should Swiss champs 2024 be mixed mandatory (meaning gender diverse teams)
    b. No it shouldn’t be mandatory

  4. Swiss champs 2024 count as qualification for euro 2024 (if they exist one day, not euros 2025)
    a. Yes

  5. If the Swiss champs aren’t mixed mandatory a proportion of the qualification spots will be reserved for gender diverse teams. The exact distribution of spots will be decided once EHBA announces the number of spots Switzerland will receive.
    6.*c no opinion

1 Like
#113

GVP Vote:

  1. Swiss champs 2024 organized by Lausanne + bex the 1.06 and 2.06 2024.
    Yes

  2. Swiss champs 2024 format
    4v4 (3+1 we played last year)

  3. Should Swiss champs 2024 be mixed mandatory (meaning gender diverse teams)
    Yes

  4. Swiss champs 2024 count as qualification for euro 2024 (if they exist one day, not euros 2025)
    Yes

  5. If the Swiss champs aren’t mixed mandatory a proportion of the qualification spots will be reserved for gender diverse teams. The exact distribution of spots will be decided once EHBA announces the number of spots Switzerland will receive.
    Yes

1 Like
#114

2 FLINTA in St.Gall

The Votes:

1 Swiss champs 2024 organized by Lausanne + bex the 1.06 and 2.06 2024.
6 x Yes
2 x Blank

2 Swiss champs 2024 format
4 x 4v4
4 x blank

3 Should Swiss champs 2024 be mixed mandatory (meaning gender diverse teams)
3 x Yes
6 x Blank

4 Swiss champs 2024 count as qualification for euro 2024 (if they exist one day, not euros 2025)
5 x yes
4 x blank

5 If the Swiss champs aren’t mixed mandatory a proportion of the qualification spots will be reserved for gender diverse teams. The exact distribution of spots will be decided once EHBA announces the number of spots Switzerland will receive.
5 x yes
3 x blank

2 Likes
#115

ZBP Vote:

  1. Swiss champs 2024 organized by Lausanne + bex the 1.06 and 2.06 2024.
    Yes**5 (No1 Blank2+)

  2. Swiss champs 2024 format
    4v4**4 (3v32 Blank2+)

3.Should Swiss champs 2024 be mixed mandatory (meaning gender diverse teams)
No**5 (Yes3 Blank0+)

  1. Swiss champs 2024 count as qualification for euro 2024 (if they exist one day, not euros 2025)
    Yes**7 (No0 Blank2+)

  2. If the Swiss champs aren’t mixed mandatory a proportion of the qualification spots will be reserved for gender diverse teams. The exact distribution of spots will be decided once EHBA announces the number of spots Switzerland will receive.
    Yes**5 (No3 Blank1+)

2 Likes
#116

it’s a yes or a no ?

#117

The majority say No. I already fixed the post. Sorry

1 Like
#118

Bex vote

  1. Yes
  2. 4×4
  3. Yes
  4. Yes
  5. Yes

Sorry for the delay. We voted last night at training

CHEERS

2 Likes
#120

Just missing Bern vote @BigTableManners ?

#121

Apologies:

  1. Location
    10 x yes

  2. Format
    4 x 3v3
    6 x 4v4

  3. Mixed
    3 x Yes
    6 x No
    1 x Abstain

  4. Qualification
    10 x Yes
    1 x Abstain

1 Like
#122

I missed the fith question (posted it to the group before it was suggested I believe)